Let me reiterate a point....
If it is just you getting into the hobby, I strongly suggest you find an existing group (via friends, Online meet-up sites, local book/library or comic stores) and try out what they are playing.


If there is a group of you that want to start, try out both systems and decide which one your group likes. Gump has posted a link to the pathfinder rules, Ghenghis gave you a link to the older version of D&D (3.5).

The current Version of D&D is 4.0 and you can find a very steamlined version of the rules and sample adventure from the publisher for free.

We all have our various options on what is the best, but really it's a personal choice.

D&D 3.5 (or older versions) are no longer getting all that much source material built for them, but there is a ton of books out there and you can probably pick a bunch of them up cheap. Most people agree you can play that game for years before some of the issues with the system really start to cause problems.

Pathfinder is built off of D&D 3.5 but with an attempt to fix some of the problems. You won't find a ton of support for the system yet as the rules are just being finished, but I would expect there to be quite a bit of support coming out soon.

D&D 4.0 is the current version of D&D and is very different from the older versions of D&D. That leads to a number of debates on the interntet, but it is also the system you will probably have the easiest time finding groups/support for.

Savage worlds is another commonly played game system. While I have never played it myself, every review I have heard of it has been very positive. So If I was starting out I would give that system some consideration. It has what I would consider a moderate level of support in the community.

But overall the biggest thing to remember is: The Hobby is a social hobby. Find a group of people that you enjoy spending time with and use the system (or systems) that most of you enjoy. If you are just concerned with the rules system and don't want to be social, well computer/video games do a better job at that. It is the social part of the hobby that really make RPGs special. And having a good social game means picking something that makes sure everyone is enjoying themselves.

Unfortunately I have to agree that it will be easiest finding material for 4th edition. (I am one of the folks not best pleased with the newest edition.) Going by my own area's sales it may or may not be the easiest system to find players for.

4e is not selling nearly as well around here as 3.5 did at its peak. Whether it is selling better than 3.5 towards the end of its cycle seems to be open to debate - the manager at the local Borders, for example, is of the opinion that had WotC continued support for 3.5 at the rate they are pushing 4e then they would have had better sales. But since they didn't it is really a matter of opinion.

I did manage to track down the free version of Ars Magica 4th edition Ars Magica is a quirky system, and one that does not try to balance the magic users against anyone else - the game is centered around a Covenant of Magi, and all characters are either wizards or supporting the wizards in some way. It is recommended that each player create three characters, though only one is played at a time. The first is the magus, the second is a companion (someone with specialized skills and/or abilities), and the third is a grog a fighting man in service to the covenant.

I love Ars Magica, but it is not the easiest system either to learn or to find players for. But for free it is well worth checking out.

Another possibility is RuneQuest - like D20 there is a free downloadable SRD

The Auld Grump

A number of things, like the composition of classes and the way they work, but the biggest is d20 Modern is a generic system used for a Modern style game, not generally high fantasy like D&D is.
With that mindset they took out the classes like Cleric, Monk Fighter and instead did "generic" classes not bassed off of an archatype, but bassed off of the Ability Scores. Like Strong for Strength, Fast = Dex etc., This Base system then was used as the basses for other settings, like a Future, Post Apoc etc.

It's a d20 system (uses the same mechanics as 3.X), but changed to be a generic base for more modern settings.

Not the most detailed explination but one that should work.

If you are looking for Modern I might recommend Spycraft 2.0, but it is a wee bit dense for a first time game. The ability to customize the rules to fit different genres was built in, and the end result can be very cinematic. (Except, maybe, in my most recent Steampunk Spycraft game... the players managed to go through 18 levels with less than five violent confrontations. While the players drove me buggy they did a great job of handling situations with... unorthodox means. My favorite involved ballroom dancing, a partner swap, and a couple of quick illusions. )

A of the first edition of the rules is still around.

Another excellent variant is Though not free the PDF is quite reasonably priced at $10.00 US. The rules can be used for both standard fantasy and modern. And, unlike Spycraft, is very easy for new players to get into. (I prefer Spycraft, but I never used it for the games for young players - the True 20 ruleset is a lot easier to explain. )

Also worth mentioning - If I recall correctly the SRD for both fantasy and modern do not describe character generation. However, there are lots of variants of the rules, some available online, that do include character generation. You may need to do some digging.

The Auld Grump

Just read deathreaver 999's clix campaign rules, and I think i'm gonna start with those, because they take what I already know and kinda twist them in the direction I wish to go
thanx, deathreaver999

You might also want to consider the Savage Worlds Test Drive rules. These are a streamlined version of the full rules that can be downloaded for free from:


Go to Savage Worlds-Core. Test Drive version 6 is the first item listed in the players section.

Have fun!

Like I said Its still a work in progress, but with the character sheets and team sheets is what I had planed. Just need to find the time right now to get them made up and 100%. Been real busy at work the past few days and been beat, plus my Red Wings play for the cup tomorrow and I'll be, well, watching the game. Come Saturday I'll be back working on it and clearing up a lot of things. Most of it was done in the wee hours of the night on little to no sleep. Trust there is a lot that I've noticed, that's made me go what the hell was I thinking!!!!