Very disappointed in the ending. Not standard of Bethesda at all.

I don't like the way it saves either. I suppose that is because of Xbox. The DLC (Downloaded Content) is horrid as well. Must be done through Microsoft Live for 800 points, whatever that means. I personally don't like using stuff like that. I would prefer to purchase with money, not points or bottle caps, through Bethesda themselves.

Thing is with the mini-expansions is that one of them continues AFTER the end of the game. So I'm thinking the official ending will have to change for that to work.

Yeah, the DLC using points is entirely Microsofts deal. Annoying, but they are trying to push the whole MS Live thing. I guess the Zune music store uses the points too. Pretty silly.

Some where in the last 5 years I hit that age of no longer understanding computers.

Could some one explain the Windows Live and these accomplishments and how they work?

I just made a Live account, will it count my previous games or do I have to start over to get these accomplishments? I can't understand the menus and I can't seem to find any place to explain it to me.

*edit*

Great, I have to start over. So to do the accomplishment things you have to start a new game and can not import your old games.

I'm slightly disappointed in Bethesda.

Is this a pure Xbox thing or does the problems port over into the PC version?



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

I don't know about XBox. I don't own one. three out of five of my friends that bought one have had nothing but problems with their Xbox's (or would it be Xboxes?) so I bought a Wii.

Anything that is Windows Live has achievements. They are just bragging rights and to pump your "gamer score". What these get you is exactly nothing. Therefore they are COMPLETELY optional and serve no purpose.

I have had no issues with my 360 (except for the occassional freeze up in Fallout 3 and GTA4, but thats the games, not the console). Have had 2 friends that did have to send theirs in, though. The warranty is three years, though, so they do cover you well.

Thats good to hear. The 360 is my preference. I was going to opt for the Wii simply because of the price. But I got a chance to play it during the holidays and I was really underwhelmed with the controls. So it was worrisome to hear the 360 might still be laden with hardware issues.

Whats the deal with the points though, are they earned or bought?

Microsoft Points are purchased either as cards from game retailers or online from MS through the Live service. I just use my debit card over live to save on buying pieces of plastic.

My question was more for the fact of the game not the console. I have the choice of PC or PS3.


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

I played on the PC without much issue at all. I keep meaning to go back to playing again, but starting over seems kind of daunting.

I have yet to look for add-on content for Fallout 3. Did they release decent stuff for PC yet?

But Wii games have so much potential in the controls. A decent game is made by the fact that it is fun, not that it looks pretty (even though that helps a lot).

That being said, I had decided long ago that I would never own a current gen console again, but they I purchased a Wii for the fun factor.

Wii has lots of potential in the controls, but painfully few games have taken advantage of that. Really disappointing. Hoping the new remote attachment helps this. Will add 1:1 response.

True. I keep wondering about that new Star Wars game and whether the light saber adapter would be worth it. I have No More Heroes and can't really see utilizing it, but at least it looks cool.

I can try to explain it. And it's more about the CREDIT CARD industry more than it's MS's wishes.

Roll back about 5 years ago. This is when MS started working on the XBox 360 and the new XBL system. Bear with me - this has everything to do with Windows Live. This is what Microsoft had planned (in concrete):

1. Must allow players to connect with each other easier than the old XBox system.
2. Must be expandable, and flexible - meaning, it wasn't hardwired, but software driven. So let's say if they want to change the format - like the New XBox Experience - they can do so easily and fluidly.
3. It must allow DLC for games. Most developers were clamoring for DLC instead of releasing an expansion "disc." You see, discs cost more overhead that comes out of the distributor's pocket. Since the PS2 didn't have DLC, they wanted to jump ahead on this. Hence, a HD for the XBox also developed.
4. Must be able to stream video and music.

Since the XBox 360 design was so cleverly designed to be user-friendly, they wanted to copy it for Windows Live. And essentially did, save the console features are a little ... more user-friendly (but that's how it always seems to be for the PC version).

Since the DLC takes a lot of work from developers, it requires that MS gather money for it. Not only for the developer, but for MS (because transactions are - and always will be - charged ... even your Internet is not truly "free" ). So they devise a system that takes a credit card charge and applies it to pay for the game.

However, the credit card industry wants a piece of the action. Not just for the charge, but the "How do we make money from kids/adults who don't always have access to a credit card?" question that pops up. So they offer MS this utlimatum -

You convert transactions into a secondary form of fake currency that does not rely directly on a credit card. We'll print cards in denominations for you that will bestow points to accounts. This way, players can buy these cards at the store, which directly translates into profits for MS and the credit card industry.

Yes, Visa/Mastercard makes money when you buy a card to give yourself points for whatever it is you are doing online. MapleStory card? Visa. GoGaia Online? Visa. Microsoft Points? Mastercard. Wii points? Mastercard. WoW monthy subscriptions via store cards? GE Money. Etc. Hey, even when you pay online through your card, we make money. Lots and lots of money.

And since this method is used by XBL, and Windows Live is modeled after XBL, that's how it's done. Of course, when the point system was divised - 500, 1000, 1600 and 2500 - they thought normal DLC would cost 100, 250 or 400 points. The 800 cost came about AFTER the system was already running. I know that my first DLC from XBL near the beginning of the 360 rollout was only 200. That's a round number for two large DLCs and one small one at 100. Now, however, there's the developer fee, the transaction fee (which has gone up), the space host fees (every new piece of DLC is maintained on a server, and with each piece, space is used up, so new servers are required to host the DLC), and basically a marginal profit for Microsoft (out of every $5 that is charged, MS makes less than $1).

It seems convoluted because it is. The credit card companies want to make money off of you even if you don't use a credit card. They basically demanded it to keep their fees for using a credit card for Live cheap. Those store bought point cards ensure that even if you don't buy a Gold subscription every month, you will end up using a card somehow. And we print those store bought cards!!!

I hate my industry, trust me. Right now, they are going to rape the PSN (PlayStation Network) for each DLC transaction that's coming with the introduction of Home and other games. The end of 2008 saw a huge re-negotiation. Plan on everything you bought before this year to be a $1 or 2 more expensive 2009 onward.

Fortunately, Nintendo will continue to make buttloads of money from downloadable games without much of a change because our credit card companies signed a contract with the Wii for set fees that last up until 2020. Mostly because the Wii is the most owned gaming system in existence.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Yeah they save me money by not allowing me to purchase their "points". Two days and all I get after entering all my CREDIT CARD information and hitting confirm is "Page is not Available"

Obviously their logic is flawed.