The thing is, I like Games Workshop. I like their business model. I like their price raises. Looking at them through my lens as a Developer for the competition, they are making money hand over fist (which my company is not ) But I don't particularly enjoy their games.

The sad truth is, most of my buddies only play GW stuff. All of my Dark Age, Rezolution, HeroClix, AT-43, Confrontation, etc is all played with one guy. And as much as I enjoy gaming with him, once in a while I would like to play against someone else. And to do that I need to play GW.

Now, I have plenty of armies for GW, but they are all quirky themed armies or hal-completed with tricky paintjobs. So I finally broke down and decided if I am playing 40K, I am going to play with the most kick-ass army ever: vanilla Space Marines. Six Tac squads (including one as Honor Guard for the leader) three Dreadnoughts, and a Land Raider is my battle plan. Add additonal Tac Squads as necessary to build the force to the level required for the game.

I'm now of the age that I can safely walk into a GW store and walk out will out being shanghighed by a Red shirt. Age has some advantages.



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

The only thing that happens when I walk into a GW stores is that I walk out shaking my head in disbelief.

I just don't walk in them anymore. After than bad experience at the Bunker near me, I can't be bothered.

I would go in there to glance around, and have someone pounce on me. "What games do you like? Oh, modern, well take a look at our orc legionnaires that just came in." You finally get rid of that guy, but don't even manage to take a single breath before another member of staff pounces on you. Seriously, they have too many staff at that store.

I finally got talked into order something... something really simple. I wanted the slot-free bases, and ordered something like 4 sprues of 4. It took well over a month of repeated phone calls before they told me it had finally come in. I went to the store, and they had four... SINGLE BASES! Took me a few minutes to convince them of their error. They tried again... which went on for yet more weeks, before they finally told me they are unable to complete the order... I think it was too complicated... or too specialist or something. They let me take something of a little more value (not much) instead and I've never returned.]

If the prices were a lot lower, I'd love to try our some things like those skeletons.. necrons or whatever. Of course, I only want the minis anyway... I prefer small scale skirmish games where individuals matter. I don't like massive combat where you move armies.

Arabin

Try Mordheim then - and I'll let you in on a secret (you don't need to use GW miniatures for it!)

Warbands are small enough that each member counts, losing a few too many can send you fleeing from the field.

I actually like large scale combat, but then I am a long time wargamer. When pikemen are fielded thirty ranks deep, Johan Fierbecker, third column seventeenth rank really doesn't mean a whole lot.

The Auld Grump

I like individuals to really count, and you can build a story in your mind about their activities. When I was playing GOMC1 with my wife before, she had one guy who had a cool name, and would get in positions where superb tactics could be used... I was always afraid of that guy... but almost every time, he would fail on the dice roll and either injure himself or runaway before seeing the damage he caused.

It's that kind of thing that I really enjoy in a game. Not just killing or beating my opponent, and so avoid systems or games where it is less personal.

If we all liked the same thing, it'd be a pretty quiet hobby, with very monotonous conventions

Arabin

I was bothered by the GW tournaments at a recent convention (where I really saw them played for the first time). It seems the terrain was interchangeable and not related to the theme, especially for 40k and Warhammer. Tables all had three pieces, a pyramid, a futuristic bunker, and a rock is an example. Strange to me. Those fiogures did look nice though.

OK, it took me like an hour and a half to paint it. I will put up some pictures of the whole army thus far in this thread once I get around to taking them.

Ghoul power. I like it.

I might take a closer look then. I misunderstood you before as it sounded like they were moved in groups like larger wargames, and therefore each individual doesn't really matter. Basically, large wargames and small wargames can be very similar at times. The wargames have you remove miniatures from the army tray to indicate losses, but in a skirmish game, you would mark off hit points (or equivalent).

Thanks for the heads up on Mordheim... now to track down links to the info. Any suggestions on starting points? PM if necesary

Arabin

You can download the stuff from here:

http://www.specialist-games.com/mordheim/rulebook.asp

And here is a good indie website with loads of extra stuff:

http://website.lineone.net/~lonefox/mordheim1.htm

Woot. Shinobi, you are the man with the links today Thanks for this, and for the SW Showdown rules. I need to print all this out so I can read it while it's too hot to sit in front of the PC

Arabin

Mee pleejour

Heh, I thought that I had provided a link to the Mordheim rules often enough that everyone here knew where to find them.

The rules aren't perfect - the Skaven in particular are a bit broken, but unlike their parent company the folks at Specialist Games admits that there are problems and work on them (albeit at glacial speeds) to try to get them into shape.

A very fun game - and unlike Warhammer Battles your troops gain experience - some of the 'rank and file' deciding that they would rather be heroes, thank you kindly.

For quite some time I ran a weekly Mordheim campaign, and had great fun doing so. Many World Works buildings have met an untimely end at those tables.

The fan site that Shinobi links to has rules for sewers - and if you have Gothic Realms and Missing Persons you have the start of some memorable scenarios. Good times, good times.

The Auld Grump - I decided at the last minute to run Mordheim instead of WARMACHINE at the summer festival - and have not regretted it at all.

Skaven are broken? They over-powered I'm guessing? I usually play them and tend to win quite often, so...my Orcs fair pretty well, too.

I've had best results with the Witch Hunters

I really don't like the faction names... they just don't sit well with me. They all sound very German or something... so perhaps the problem is them all sounding like they are from one region. I'm not talking about Skaven of Witch Hunters, but the others. Maybe it'll work better if I rename them all... heh.

TAG, I probably did pay attention to your links previously as I wasn't looking for this type of game, and tend to avoid GW in general.

Arabin

Wow TAG, that was a lot of info, and I guess you took my post the wrong way. I'm used to more western style names and don't feel any affinity to the names in the game. I wasn't saying anything about the historical accuracy of witch hunters in Germany... I'm talking about the words themselves.

I like the idea of a fantasy skirmish game... but not a medieval germany skirmish game. Just does interest me. And even though that probably isn't the case, it is how those faction names make me feel.

If that still doesn't explain what I mean, don't worry about it. Just forget I said anything.

Arabin

I really wanted to reply with an animated image of Spy vs. Spy with one standing on a box (soap or otherwise) when it suddenly gets yanked out from under his feet by the other spy, revealing a pit beneath...

Unfortunately, I couldn't find that so you'll have to settle for a more friendly image:



Arabin

In spite of my grumbliness you should give the game a try - if you go to Specialist Games you will find a number of alternative settings -
Lustria (Cities of Gold) is Central American themed, with Aztec Lizardmen and the folks from the Old World who want to rob them.

Khemri is an Egyptian themed setting, with a Mummy warband as well as the folks trying to loot their tombs.

For that matter, Warhammer Wild West from the Warhammer Historical line uses the Mordheim rules at its core.

The Auld Grump

That sounds really cool. I glanced at Warhammer Wild West once and it looked good, but I didn't/don't really want a western, and I was very anti-GW at the time.

I think I'd like Lustria... that sounds like a lot of fun.

No worries on the grumbliness... I probably took it worse than it was intended anyway Do you have a link for Lustria... or is it someone on the site linked above?

Arabin