Yeah. I will admit that it bothers me - a lot of small publishers are already griping about the cut that DTRPG takes out (and to a lesser extent RPGNow), and it is likely that with this merger the cut will increase beyond that.

It may well be that both companies have realized that by competing against each other it is likely that both would fail, PDFs are still very much a niche market. And RPG PDFs are a small niche of that, almost a ni.

But still, it bothers me. (As an aside, I had noticed that the free PDFs from DTRPG, once released every two weeks, had dwindled to less than one a month.)

The Auld Grump, who wonders about his store credit at both e-tailers....

I never see really no diference in prices between one and the other (not like they where making the prices go down...) It was good because once in a while one of them had an offer or discount... but in general I don't see any problem in that (usually competence is good for the buyer...but as said I didn't see it happening...)

Only my 2cents... and hope they join the accounts (I don't know how) and put my credit in one...

I'm not sure that it's of real benefit to publishers although I can certainly see the upside to RPGnow and DriveThru.

One of the reasons WorldWorks pushed it's own storefront early on is that we had serious problems keeping our products in the spotlight at large RPG catalog sites. Our catalog was being buried under the weight of 100's of publishers of varying quality releasing products every day. This was becoming an issue for many larger publishers and no one could release fast enough to stay visible. RPGNow did take some steps to curb that situation by creating a 2 tier storefront (RPGNow & Edge), 'Edge' being for new/green publishers. Ultimately I don't think the strategy worked mainly because many of the larger publishers decided to go it on their own before the 'Edge' experiment had time to prove itself. Instead I think Edge only further segmented the audience and reduced visibility for everyone.

The other reason we pulled focus away from outside storefronts is the percentage that they take for the service. Not that it's an unfair percentage
(and for new start-ups it's a great way to get your feet wet) but when your catalog reaches a certain size that percentage really starts to hurt your bottom line. I wanted the business to grow and the only way I could do that was by reinvesting that extra percentage into the business. I'm happy I did because we have grown and we are doing things now that I only dreamed about when I first started WWG.

And finally (most importantly) having your catalog thrown in with 1000's of products/publishers really depersonalizes the whole enterprise. What I love about pulling focus back to the WorldWorks store is that we have a very direct connection to our audience. Our fanbase has always been the main driving force behind everything that we create here. Losing that personal connection would make the experience hollow and unfulfilling for everyone involved.

[quote=]"And finally (most importantly) having your catalog thrown in with 1000's of products/publishers really depersonalizes the whole enterprise. What I love about pulling focus back to the WorldWorks store is that we have a very direct connection to our audience. Our fanbase has always been the main driving force behind everything that we create here. Losing that personal connection would make the experience hollow and unfulfilling for everyone involved.[/quote]

Nobody does that better in any part of the RPG business than you &WWG, Denny.

I'm not sure what to think about this merger.

I would hope that two companies doing essentially the same thing, possibly struggling, become stronger by merging into one. But I don't know if either was struggling. And competition tends to bring out the best.

I purchase many, many pdf products. It is my preferred format for things like rules and counters (and obviously terrain). My first foray into cardstock terrain was through RPGNow. I learned about Worldworks specifically because of RPGNow. I don't know if I would ever have stumbled upon their site otherwise. So from an advertising perspective, the first few sets I bought through RPGNow. But that led me here, and the last 20 sets I've purchased directly through WWG. Those 20 sales are directly tied to those first few sales.

Like I said, competition brings out hte best. If they were not struggling, and this is simply a merger of convenience, then we'll not get the best. We'll get the ONLY, and that means they can hike their prices and as the only game in town, we either put up with it, or pass.

They are already hiking their prices as of December. Several other companies who use RPGNow have stated on their own web sites that they will be raising their prices starting in December because of the new rates they will be paying, so if you have been on the fence about getting anything, now is the time.

I hope they don't lose too many advertisers. I'd hate to find out that products I used to purchase through RPGNow are no longer offered anywhere, at any price, in PDF. That would be a shame.

I think I only ever usede DriveThru one time, and that was by following a link in TMP to something that interested me. I bought something (can't remember what) and didn't write down my account info or bookmark their site. That tells me that I searched it for stuff I like, and it came up nearly empty for me. So adding "their" content to the content of stuff already on RPGNow probably doubles the goods, but does nothing for what I want.

And I never used RPG Edge. I never found anything there I wanted. Until Denny explained what it was for, I had no idea that it carried different stuff, only htat it didn't have what I was looking for.

Perhaps none of that matters. The new combined site will have it all - at higher prices!

I know of the merger but haven't followed it closely. How much of a price increase are we talking about here?

One site said they were going to raise their prices 10% starting in December just to stay even with where they are now. http://www.btrc.net/

These guys make a pdf product that is a customizable card game. It's always interested me. From time to time I go back to their site and check it out, and read up on it again, and then head to RPGNow to see if it's on sale. I just happened to check them out a few hours ago when I saw their home page news item dated October 27th that mentiones the merger and their upcoming price hike.

Mr Grump already noted that Atlas has left, and another company has a petition up asking the merged companies to pull back their price hike.

So based on that very limited intel, I would guess that these few are not the only ones to get hit hard by this hike.

Steve

Thats a shame. Those sites were always great for company exposure. I buy products directly from companies when I can but most of the time I wouldn't even know they existed in the first place without seeing them on RPGNow first.
I guess 10% isn't terrible but it doesn't help a market that isn't that big to begin with.
Now we wait and see if any competing sites pop up.

I find it a bit strange that they talk of the merger as an advantage to the consumer and then raise percentages and I bet prices...

Seems there should have been a bit of duplication of effort and space saved and deleted to offer even better prices and less cost overall and a reduction in prices. Not a very good business model I guess, unless it's Monopoly or Microsoft.

I will likely be switching most of my purchases to Steve Jackson Games e-tailer. (They are currently boasting on their site that they remain independent of the One Book Shelf folks.... I suspect that a general migration of publishers may have already begun, with Atlas Games being only the first.

As an off topic aside, Firefox 2 is excellent. I have just started using it today, and this is my first post with the new browser. Hopefully it will help me to cut down on my late night, no sleep, spelling errors....

The Auld Grump

Someone has started a petition asking that they rescind the hike:

I understand the 35% part being too expensive...but maybe you have to think of left something there...maybe old sets to get the people here...because a lot of us find first Rpg o drive and from there we came here... Not saying how to make your bussines...only giving a though... (my money go straight to your shop as soon as the product is out I've no problem with pay-pal - for now at least)

I think that you made the shop just in time...

Looks like they are being aggressive about their opening. Hopefully this will be enough of a kick in the nethers for OBS to roll back their percentage.

The Auld Grump, and more power to E-23.

35% margin on an e-store selling PDFs is ridiculous

40-50% is a typical margin for a bricks and mortar bookstore - and they have enormous overheads compared with an e-tailer, let alone one selling downloads.

It all comes down to how much you need the customers who come through OneBookShelf. Keep working on getting new customers to find WorldWorksgames.com, get those who come through OneBookShelf to start coming here (heavily promote the WWG forums in your PDFs) and get WWG out and noticecd on the gaming forums (as you're doing already). Once you've got reliable enough business without OneBookShelf you can cut loose from them.

For what its worth I've been very happy with e23 and Warehouse 23 in the past.

Like most others here, I started out by seeing WWG on RPGNow, but have bought directly from the WWG Store since it appeared on the site. I know Paypal also eats some of the profit, but nowhere near 35%. That's insane for an online retailer.

Arabin

Certainly you should have a feel by now about how your money is spent to get your image and name out to the buying public. Is the money better spent in commissions to OBS or targeted advertising? If there is any doubt as to where your customers are getting the info, you might want to include one of those little button surveys in the check out area...

My gut feeling is that the only thing I would make available for that kind of commission would be something that simply doesn't sell anymore, heh.

I think I found WorldWorks at EN World. I've always bought WorldWorks stuff directly from this site. There is so much information here, it is much better than what is available at RFPNow, etc.

Elle