Just a quick poll to see if folks here are pessimistic or optimistic about 5e.

Thirty days on the poll - I may come back to this in six months or so, to see if the situation looks better or worse.

The Auld Grump

I find myself on the positive side of neutral. We have VERY little to go off of at this point and so my opinion may change at a later date, but for now I am thinking it is possible they will get things at least close to right. Only time will tell (as Buffett would say)

I came down on the negative side of neutral - WotC did a lot of damage to themselves in the run up to 4e, I don't know if they can recover, but I am glad to see them trying to do so.

Mr. Wyatt? I have a friend named Mr. Board-With-A-Nail_In that would like to speak with you... a long conversation....

The Auld Grump

Considering they are releasing 1st ed as a stop-gap since they are openly killing 4th...not hopeful. They are going on about the public process...but its already a long ways into development. How much will REALLY change at this point?

It was a toss-up between Hopeful and Doubtful for me; ultimately I went with Hopeful, but I would like to add Doubtful's notation to my response. I am HOPEFUL this will turn out great but they definitely have their work cut out for them.

Even if it's a good game, I can't see this working from a corporate standpoint.

1) By announcing it now, they've effectively said "4E will no longer be supported. For the next year, don't bother with any of our products." This has already born out, as orders have plummeted.

2) If the game's "default mode" is like 4E, it won't get back those players that 4E alienated in the first place. If the game is unlike 4E, it probably STILL won't get back the 4E alienated players, and it will ALSO alienate the 4E players.

3) Much of the 'grognard' D&D players have already commited to their own books, the free clones, or Pathfinder. It's very unlikely that they're going to say 'new shiny' for a game that's ALSO being sold to a very different 4E gaming crowd.

In short the basic problem is that WOTC has to heal a rift that they themselves caused with their insanely hostile 4E marketing campaign against older gamers, and somehow keep 4E players who now already feel abandoned after only four years, ande simultaneously deal with the fact that other companies (such as Paizo) have already stepped in to fill the void that abandoning all the old editions and the OGL created, and come to grips that the market hasn't exactly moved back to pRPG gaming in the first place.

I just don't see WOTC having the ability to overcome this amount of sheer badwill at this point.

On the doubtful side, to much damage, to much historical refernce to screw it up, etra. to fix, find stll lbroke, and then start over with another untested broken product.

I am highly optimistic. Of course, I am off all my meds now so everything seems optimistic to me...

Neutral.

Their situation is dire.

They own the brand, which has power, even in its dwindled state. Many will give 5e a chance based on the fact that hasbro has the money to put it in front of consumers and the recognition of brand to get that second chance.

I am a little torn. With them in disfavour of the general gaming community, it allows other brands to come forth and fill the void, which as meager as it is - I'm happy to contribute to.

They are fracturing the community further with another edition, and because of the OGL will have an uphill battle no matter what.

Yet, I personally don't want D&D to go the way of the dinosaur.

Doubtful. WOTC may come up with a better version of D&D, but it will still undermine their customer base and move more people to Pathfinder.

But I'm erring towards pessimist on the basis that WOTC don't seem to have got their head around digital content and pricing and they'll continue to lose ground to alternatives that do understand the digital market, even if the system is a) an improvement and b) doesn't split their customer base.

IF D&D Next, as they have taken to calling it, goes OGL or similar it might gain a lot of strength back. I think droping OGL hurt them a lot more than people give it credit for.

+1 for the return of the OGL!

Actually, if they made all their content across all editions OGL-compliant, that may help towards creating the inclusivity for they are aiming.

I'm hopeful in that they seem to be doing most of the right things now.

Whether that's enough? Time will tell I guess...

I ceased to care about D&D when I switched to Pathfinder.

For giggles;
http://greywulf.net/2012/01/oh-crud/


Oh Crud

“I can’t seem to find anywhere else to display my disgust. I have played D&D for over fifteen years. I love the game and have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on the books, miniatures and so on. I even went to see that horribly disappointing movie.

The worst blow to any true, hardcore fan is this 3rd Edition. Talk about dumbing down the best roleplaying game on the face of the earth. The powers that be have taken a game that built on people’s imaginations and made you work for your reward and turned it into an idiotic, child-like version of itself. You don’t work for your reward, the new spells and psionics are silly, the prestige class is a pathetic addition, and forcing the rest of the gaming world to change everything that they have learned for twenty to twenty-five years is just plain hell.

I have seen the rise of D&D and now, I’m sad to say, I have seen the beginning of the end. All of you have shot your foot and you don’t even know it. This is one devoted TSR fan and DM of thirty players that will not buy another product and does not allow any of this crud in the game. Until you start making products that reclaim the honor and glory, I say to all of you that will listen that this d20 system is the destroyer of the greatest game known to roleplaying, and those who use it are not true D&D players and masters.”

J Jackson, Kansas City, MO

Dragon magazine issue 293 dated March 2002

One thing that I think might help WotC is if they go back to having folks post semi-regularly on forums aside from their own.

James Jacobs and Erik Mona each have over a thousand posts on E. N. World - it makes them seem very approachable. (They also come across as having common sense, and being, well, gamers.)

WotC fired the last person that used to post for them over there.

The Auld Grump

Yeah, whether you like 4e or not, there was no excuse for the way they rolled it out, or for their nearly annual schedule of layoffs.

Mr. Baker had been with them for how long, and had how many credits under his belt?

The Auld Grump

Yeah WotC's staffing descisions have been...odd, but approached normalcy when compared to its own posterity.

I concur.

i'm sligthly positive!^^

Since i do like the 4e COMBAT system, but everything else CAN and SHOULD BE changed!^^

in terms of pure game mechanics i HATE the slot/cast per day system! i'd like a mana based system or at least an hybrid like in 4e...

i'd like LOT of choices for the players but they must select what's best suited in a particular fight!
I don't like "solve any quest" spells (divination).... in fact the system i like most is gurps BUT gurps requires A LOT of work to prepare an adventure (and that's a big PLUS of the 4e).

The whole idea of once per day/combat/whatever actions is an aspect of recent RPG rules that brakes the fourth wall (the suspension of disbelief that makes gaming engaging) for me. A magical ability that takes a day to recharge, that I can get. But once I've performed a particular physical action I somehow lose the ability to perform it again, that just seems completely false to me. Have I forgotten it? Did I pull a muscle, one that's used for that action only, and which will come right 30 seconds after combat finishes? What?

If 5e wants to become a great RPG then, in my mind, it has to get beyond the artificial mechanisms that have proved so necessary to making console gaming work.

I can see both sides, Zenguy. It is easy to see the artificial limitations of the system with physical activities, but considering that some things are so physically draining that it takes time to recoup from them. I also realize that "game time" ends up being a few minutes, but then I remember playing rugby when I was in high school. At a one match day, no problem running around. Play four or five in one day and I can tell you I was not sprinting up and down the field like I was in the first game, ESPECIALLY if I pushed myself to my limits early on.

I also see it is opportunity in combat. How many times to you actually have the chance to pull off that cool maneuver.