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| Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) http://worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=11511 |
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| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-20-2012, 02:25 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
As some of you may know, we've had a terrible shooting in nearby Aurora, Colorado. After a fairly hectic morning of gathering information and getting in touch with friends, I'm relieved that everyone that I know in the area is all right. (There are some friend-of-friend concerns, of course.) I've had a rough day, trying to get information, dealing with internet assholes, putting up with political BS at an insanely innapropriate time, and generally enjoying a horrible rollercoaster ride. Fortunately, for me, the ride's over. At worst, I lost a productive afternoon... that I can make up for this weekend. It's a very minor, even petty complaint. Still, if anyone on this form has religious tendancies, and even if you don't, I do ask that you spare time in your prayers for the victims, their families and friends, and all the people who have been affected by this gross act of wanton evil. Many, many people need support and the trauma is dramatic. I don't normally wax religious online, but God be with us all. |
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| Author: | Talae [ 07-20-2012, 03:15 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-20-2012, 10:46 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Very sorry to hear about that Jaynz. Glad you and your friends/loved ones are all right. That's going to have a massive impact on a city the size of Aurora - I hope there's a lot more support than anger over the next few months and years. Now if only more people did tabletop wargaming/rpging instead of playing with real weapons there'd be less of this stuff going on. (Plus good folks like us would have more people to play with, not to mention what it would do for the WG/RPG market.) (p.s. Very apt image, Talae.) |
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| Author: | mrken [ 07-21-2012, 07:07 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Really don't know what to say at this time, so for now just asking for your prayers for the families, and friends of those involved. It has a huge impact and we are just beginning to sort through it. |
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| Author: | joydyhee [ 07-21-2012, 08:00 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
I am adding my thoughts and prayers...it is a crazy time. |
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| Author: | greypilgrim [ 07-21-2012, 12:16 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Same here...sympathies and all. |
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 07-22-2012, 09:00 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
My heart goes out to the families suffering after this tragedy. Random, without meaning and just an awful twist of fate. |
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| Author: | mrken [ 07-22-2012, 12:44 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Just found out that President Obama is going to be here tonight for the vigil. Westboro Babtist Church will also be in attendance. They will turn this vigil into a mockery. The families don't need or want any of this, just a time to come together to morn and grieve. This will not end well. The pain will just keep going on and on while others use it to further their agendas. |
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| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-22-2012, 12:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-22-2012, 06:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
It's not just Colorado, but the rest of the USA and in fact the whole of the English speaking world that need to express their shock and grief at what's happened in Aurora. For better or worse that task of speaking for the rest of us falls to your president. At least Obama seems to be one of your more compassionate presidents and far better suited to that task than some of his predecessors. I just hope your media can curb their urge to dredge up sensationalism and amplify dissent long enough to leave the event enough room for dignity and grace the victims and all those that know/knew them deserve. As for the gun control arguments, from the outside, the US obsession with guns and gun ownership seems downright crazy, if not borderline suicidal. If an event like the massacre in Aurora isn't enough to get right minded people to start questioning the US approach to gun availability, what is? Just how many public, workplace or campus shootings, how many handgun murders and accidental deaths will the US public accept before you decide enough is enough? If Obama is asking this question, then I say "good on him". Over here we only have to put up with the media images and the very rare nut-job who'd like to imitate what he's seen on the media (but doesn't get very far as guns are that much harder to get here) - but here even just the media impact is grueling (that's people like me and mine in those images). How you guys can put up with it locally I have no idea. As to how you can keep putting arguments of politics and convenience ahead of the reality of your own dead and maimed, especially in the face of highly visible events like this, well, that's completely beyond me. |
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| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-22-2012, 06:59 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
The problem with gun control in the US is that Europe made damn sure that the US would be made by the gun for two hundred years, then the US had to defend itself by the gun for the next hundred, etc. It's part of what defined how the US would come to be. In truth, guns are not that commonplace really, but the addage of "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns" really does hold true. Most guns, particularly semi-autos, used by criminals are actually smuggled into the country and are manufactured in Korea. No gun control law in the world will slow them down. And, in fact, once guns are in an area, and in the hands of criminals, gun bans actually dramatically drive up the violent crime rates. Plus, 20th century history is replete with examples of why having the governments being the only one with guns is a really bad idea. Even in the United States, the places with the strictest gun control has not only the most crime but also the most instances of police violence as well. So we're at a tough balancing act. The fear, even phobia, of guns is perfectly understandible. But there's no magic wand to make them go away and it's impossible for the police to protect everyone, all the time. And, usually, the gun violence is limited to certain parts of certain cities... this is why Aurora was so shocking when, over the same weekend, more people were murdered in Chicago, Ill. and it didn't get much press. (And Chicago has STRICTER gun control than most of Europe!) And make no mistake, Obama is a political opportunist, and this makes certain government types cackle with glee about disarming the public. This also gets out the would-be macho types who want to claim "If I had a gun there, I could to X!" A pox on both of their houses, really. Truth is, this has been a terrible, terrible moment in Colorado history, already coming off an incredibly hard summer for all of us here. When people cry out 'gun control as a response, it's misguided. The gun, and no weapon, convinced the shooter to commit this terrible atrocity - the fault of the evil was within his heart. I really have a distaste for those who would extend the blame to weapon used, or the video-games he's played (already done), or the music he listened to (already done), or what have you... Anything to avoid the real truth.. that evil really is still in our midst and sometimes it will rear its head in ugly, horrifying ways. |
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| Author: | Ninevah [ 07-22-2012, 08:58 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Yes, this is a truly sad and despicable act. Outlawing or restricting gun ownership even more isn't the solution, though. It typically ends up the opposite. Take a look at Switzerland. They not only allow gun ownership, the government GIVES a gun to every adult male after he leaves military service. (I suspect they started this practice in the early 20th century as a way to easily turn average citizens into an armed militia if they're ever at war) One of the most prominent pasttimes there is shooting competitions--even for 15 year olds. And they have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world. MUCH lower than, say Great Britain or the US. |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-23-2012, 02:00 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Switzerland has a very different culture around guns. Maybe it's their nature, or the military service, but you never hear about the Swiss being "gun crazy like Americans are" (apologies to Canadians). Personally, I wonder it the Second Amendment as written has lost its value as a medicine for the nation and, like most long expired medicines, become more toxin than cure. |
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| Author: | joydyhee [ 07-23-2012, 02:32 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-23-2012, 03:17 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-23-2012, 05:40 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | riddles [ 07-23-2012, 07:16 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
Such a horrific thing to happen. Like the rest of the world, I find, as with Zenguy, myself shaking my head how the difference in attitude to guns is in the US compared to the rest of the so called "western" world. But as Jaynz is saying, there's so many guns in circulation that the Genie is well and truly out of the bottle. Even if there was a political will to get rid of them all, it's a nigh on impossible task. Just look at the efforts in Afganistan (similar gun culture) and Iraq (not similar culturally I think, just so many guns around). I'm about as religious as a wet fish, but my thoughts and prayers with everyone affected by this. |
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 07-23-2012, 08:28 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
"Guns don't kill people. I kill people!" So, the above quote kinda says it all BUT that being said, minimizing access to automatic weapons and really clamping down on registration and licensing can and does prevent problems. Everyone has the right to own a gun but that doesn't mean it should be easy to own a gun. There's a lot of psychos in the world and a lot of them aren't very good with paperwork. And being the shut-in's they typically are, in a gun controlled country, they don't really have connections illegal or otherwise to obtain heavy firepower. In this case I think you have to look at the numbers. It all comes down to murder rates and gun related crime rates. The US definitely needs to take a harder look at itself in this respect. |
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| Author: | Talae [ 07-23-2012, 09:00 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-23-2012, 09:04 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-23-2012, 01:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-23-2012, 01:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-23-2012, 04:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Jaynz [ 07-23-2012, 05:09 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 07-23-2012, 06:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
| Author: | Kane [ 07-23-2012, 07:05 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate I find it interesting that a country like Switzerland, where every adult male MUST have a gun has 3/5 the gun deaths...and virtually all of that is suicide. Then again, that may be because they are also have mandatory training as part of the militia. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 07-23-2012, 07:22 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Crazy Day (Aurora, Colorado) |
I stand fairly neutral in the matter of gun control - I think that a license to own, use, and maintain a gun should be at least as strictly regulated as the right to own, use, and maintain an automobile. We have licenses to drive cars because they can be lethal if used in an incautious manner. The same applies to guns, with the added caveat that a gun is lethal when used as intended. We have drifted far off topic, and into one of those discussions where neither side will ever be convinced by the other. My prayers go out to the families and friends of the victims of this unnecessary act. May they find justice, may they find comfort, may they find peace. The Auld Grump |
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