I don't think its just the rules themselves - it is that the D20 system seems to have empowered an entire generation of munchkins: player, DM and even authors alike. I haven't seen much of that here, but they are abundant on many other gaming forums and stores. It might be the advent of the internet that has made me notice them more, but when I was younger and gamed more often, I didn't run into the mindset anywhere near as much as I have over the last few years.

I'm sure that other games aren't immune to the munchkin syndrome, and I can state for certaintity that all D20 aren't that way (probably the vast majority aren't), but it has been my more recent experience that D20 draws them like a magnet.

Yeah, while the Rifts players kept quietly to themselves. I may not like their choice of game, but the Rifts players are better neighbors. And I am sure that not all the GURPS players are that extreme, but that one group of them guaranteed that Mr. Jackson will not see me buying any of his RPG stuff.

And GURPS is the game for min/maxers. So many options, so many ways to try to slide the cheeses past the GM. Though I do own GURPS Discworld - and you don't need the full version of GURPS to play if you avoid magic. GURPS Goblins also interested me as well, but then I have always had a sift spot for the little fellas.

The Auld Grump, you know, cuddly. Like a hedgehog. (Actual description once used by one of my players in regards to me... he had only encountered hedgehogs as plush toys...

GW has plenty of zombies in their Necromunda section - they're easy to use in any contemporary / futuristic setting (being as Necromunda is futuristic). Look under their specialist games (necromunda / Scavvies and Plague Zombies).

BTW Necromunda is easy for tabletop battles and the rules can be downloaded for free - not directly applicable for RPG but we like it : )

I've got loads of SJ games and have found them to be thoughtful but oft top heavy. As for GURPS, well it has it's place. To be honest, I've only met a handful of GURPS players and they didn't seem that different from any of the other gamers I know (ie they thought that their system was superior to all others).

Now, how about the Arduin Grimoire? I've got some of the original manuals somewhere, right next to my copy of Superhero 2044 and the Masterbook Necroscope setting.

You guys are makin' me feel bad for liking GURPS!

I used to like it more than any other system, for its versatility. Then I played nothing but White Wolf, and then D&D 3.0 came out.

Now, I play all three, as the mood suits. If a game's good, play it. I'm sorry to hear that one group of crappy gamers can ruin an entire system for you.

As we veer wildly off topic...

I have encountered one resoltion system where the average was 0 - you rolled two D6 of different colors (red and green by preference), and subtraced the red die from the green die. 0 was an average shot, while +5 was a great one and -5 was one of the worst attempts that you have ever made. There was no automatic success or failure, if your skill plus stat was high enough to succeed with a -5 penalty then it still succeeded. However if you rolled box cars (which totalled 0) then something good happened - whether or not the shot hit, while if you got snake eyes (which also totalled 0) then something bad happened, regardless of whether the shot hit (as usual I am using combat as the example( and lots of parenthesis)).

I suppose that you could use Warhammer as a mass combat sydtem for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay...

Armageddon: 2089 has rules for mass combat in a science fiction D20 setting. Slaine has rules for mass combat, if you liked the comic Slaine - again a D20 game. And there is a free mass combat system for Conan that can be downloaded , again from the Mongoose site. Mongoose seems to have a lot of D20 supplements dealing with mass combats, and has come out with a setting called Wars...

The Auld Grump

Lets make up our own system.

I suggest taht we base it on D100. Not as in the usual 2D10 system but with a 100 sided die.

They roll for ages.

And ages.

And ages.

My theory to game systems is the same as my theory to operating systems.

They all suck!

I can find ways to tell you why every system I have played sucks. What is important it the story and the GM. I will tell you my favorite game is Call of Cthulhu, does that mean I think CoC's system is best? Heck no, it gets the job done and in a rather unobtrusive way.

Now on to what I like about D20.

1. The OGL. Yes, this is entirely a wizards marketing tool. It means that wizards get to sell more player handbooks, DMGs and MMs and keep their system in the spotlight. It also means that their is a wealth of source material for D20. You name the world their is probably source for it.

2. Player base. There is a huge player base compared to any other system. If I suggest a D20 game I can rather easily find players vs. another system.

So with the good comes the bad.

1. Class system. From the time my eyes were opened to builder systems like Champions and GURPS I have found class systems too restrictive.

2. Wizards R&D. Being on the triad for Living Greyhawk I have watched Wizards R&D contradict themselves more times than I can count. In a home game this doesn't matter much because the GM is god and can rule any way he feels. So my beef here doesn't really count for much.

So right now if I were writing gaming supplements, and I am, I would be hard pressed not to look at D20 (See #2 of good). It is the same debate as the 1.0" vs 1.5" here. A larger percentage of the customer base wants 1.0" or is willing to live with it, so that is what is being provided.

--Chris

PS now for my completely inflammatory comment Macs Suck