As I said - I do not find my standards limiting, I find other people's lack of standards perplexing. (And feel that lowering of standards is a bad thing - 'good enough' is not good enough.)

I can understand your friend's viewpoint as to the drawing style in anime - the lack of shading can be annoying. But for me the low frame rate is downright painful - my eyes are good for exactly two things - they have excellent color perception and a very high scan rate (both are well above average), on the other hand my night vision is next to nonexistent. (What used to be called moon blind.)

The Auld Grump

Have no fear, Shatteredragon!

Your status as "insane manga/anime fan" is secure!

Shatter'

Have you heard of the series called WitchHunter Robin, if so what do you think of it.


BTW great to see you back in the fold.


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

I transformed into a little kid again tonight, my sisters are visiting from Calgary, and rented "Howl's Moving Castle" as soon as they found out I hadn't seen it yet, Miyazaki films always turn me back into that little kid that first fell in love with anime. I am actually watching it again atm while typing this (subtitled this time).

On a similiar note, I caught a "Ten best animated movies of all time" special made by Disney...I wanted to beat on the idiots that chose the films. At #10 was "Spirited Away" (in my opinion should have been #1, or very close too), what an insult, the other nine were all Disney box office smashes, none of them were done by any other production or film companies, and most of them were CG movies made by Pixar (ie. Toy Story, Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, etc...), I mean...WTF are they thinking, the only reason the films that were chosen made it to the top 9 were because they were Disney films...but even then, Miyazaki's stuff (converted by Disney) blows them away, he does with animation what Disney has never accomplished, and without delving into the easy route of CG, yes, I'm well aware that CG has some difficulties, but by comparison, not nearly as many as a well animated film like Miyazaki does.
While I like CG, there needs to be a distiction between CG and actual animation as the two mediums are completely different from each other. The work that goes into animating one of Miyazaki's films makes the work done on recent Disney movies look like amateur hack jobs. I see too many kids falling by the CG wayside, I offered one of my friends children one of my Miyazaki DVD's to watch when she seemed to show an interest, and the response was "I only like movies like "Finding Nemo", sigh, what a waste.
Not that I'm bashing Disney or anything, I like many of the newer CG movies they have put out, and am moderatly indifferent towards most of their older animated stuff (more likely to enjoy Don Bluth films than Disney). In this case though the title should have read the "Ten best Disney animated movies of all time", or the "Ten best CG Disney/Pixar movies of all time".

Hmmm, I agree that Spirited Away should be high on the list, though I might put it as number 3 rather than 1. Snow White (Disney) is still number 1 in my books, followed by Gulliver's Travels... (the Fleischer version) but then my tastes are a bit old fashioned. (In many ways Spirited Away is also old fashioned. )

Nothing much by Disney in the last 30 years or so... (I don't count Pixar as Disney.)

The Auld Grump, Gabby's version of 'It's a Hap-Hap-Happy Day' interspaced with complaints about everything is still a fond memory.

I saw part of one version of Lodoss War - it fit perfectly with my conception of 'Anime is Crap'. It may well have been the T.V. version, but it left me with no interest in renewing my acquaintance with the title. (I also remember hating the male lead character. Hating him, it was in a scene where he allows his attention to wander in the middle of battle, yet for some reason the person he was fighting never even tried to hit him. I would have been happier to see Pern (Parn?) falling dead to the floor, his bowels spilling...) The animation itself was also rather poor.

For what it is worth, the worst animation that I have seen was an American show titled 'Life with Louie', bad computer drawn traditional animation. No anti-aliasing - you could see the jaggies. And some of the American animation from the '70s and early '80s can give even the worst anime a run for its money.. Star Trek and Dungeons & Dragons anyone?

The Auld Grump

*I will admit that there is some decent animation in some anime, but it is rare. Studio Ghibli is the only consistent producer of good animation in anime that I can name. The fact that they also tend to have good plots make them all the better!

I also salute Lassiter for bringing Miyazaki's films to the U.S. - I am very happy that he is taking over Disney's traditional animation studios. He is a hero.

Disney actually bought Pixar some time ago. Check out for more info.

Jobs is on the Disney BoD now, but he's backing down from that and from his position at Pixar to work more at Apple.

There's two qualifying portions for an anime getting an award in Japan and the US:

1. It follows a pre-set convention of storytelling. There's a list of the qualifiers somewhere, but I'm too lazy to find them.

2. The theme and characters must be consistent. No variations are permitted. Stories with more than one medium (TV vs Movie) are judged differently.

Nowhere in any anime award sectionals in Europe, Japan and the US are there standards for how the art looks. Art is ART. The drawing style or animation process is an art in itself - each rendered anime is different from the others by the style in which is made.

Talking about or commenting on the art aspects of various anime (as in "this one is flat out ugly, this one has bad rendering", etc.) is like debating the difference in art between Michealangelo, Picasso and Jim Lee. It's pointless. I respect your opinion that you think some styles of art are ugly, Grump, but to try and judge all anime by one standard (Miyazaki's) only makes me disregard your opinion about anime down the line.

If you want my opinion, Miyazaki's movies all look the same to me, and the style is boring. I consider him to be just another animated movie artist, and not really an ANIME artist in the sense, because he has yet to make a consistant, episodic series that follows the conventions of what makes anime "anime."

Not to say his art isn't pretty and clean, because it is. But I like anime that has the human, gritty touch to it, and not some godly perfectionist one. I don't watch anime for the art, I watch it for the story and the characters. Miyazaki carries the same characters between stories and it seems like he's stuck on one type of formula for the heroines, heroes, sidekicks and protagonists. The story is good, but the individual characterization leaves something to be desired.

I only liked Naussica and Spirited Away. I didn't really care for Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke (maybe because they, to me, were almost carbon copies of the movies I did like?)

=Not bagging on you, Grump, just I get a little disappointed when people start judging drawn art and using one medium as a comparison.=

If you like comedy, check out Azumanga Daioh.

Cowboy Bebop was good. The story is what really makes each episode worth watching. I agree that the animation isn't perfect, but like I mentioned, I don't watch animation for the sake of animation. I especially avoid Disney like the plague. I can't stand Disney movies for the fact the merely maul the real tale with happy endings. The Hunchback of Notre Dame (pronounced Noe-tra Dahm, I hate it when people mispronounce it) is not a happy ending. Alladin was more than the gregorious tale of a mere boy and his flying carpet meets genie.

I just thought I'd through that in there since we were talking about faithfully following a story like Warriors of the Wind.

Anyway, I can't comprehend your way of thinking, Grump, so I'll just suggest anime to people who watch anime for entertainment. Otherwise, I have really no suggestions I think can fit your liking.

Did you like the animated Tolkein stuff (I think they only did the Hobbit and the Return of the King)? I have that on DVD because a friend of mine liked it a lot and came to visit a lot. It has kind of grown on me since I watched again after about 10 years of not having seen it.