This guys shows the boxed set that I have.

I also have the series of RED through Black Boxed sets and really enjoyed playing those because they introduced Mass Combat in D&D.

I'm a little burned about The Miniatures Handbook for 3.5 that hinted at Mass Combat (that it would evolve) then WotC totally abandoned that notion.

It would be nice if Pathfinder would introduce a campaign system that would involve mass combat.


edit: seems that something is horking up my interwebs and my post was not coherent. Removed incoherence from the post.

Wow those are some old books!

Good idea on the mass combat from PF, that'd be stellar.

Grump: Essentials wasn't abandoned. Heroes of Shadow is generally presented in Essentials format. I kind of like that. But the bulk of the powers and feats are Pre Essentials (i.e. sharable to all other classes including Essentials).

To clarify, I don't mind Essentials. Presenting the character classes in a more limited fashion is much better than the usual splat books we came to expect from 4e. On the down side, the initial Essentials characters were too limited, many players (me included) wanted to have the vast array of character variations that 4e had.

Heroes of Shadow is a happy medium. Simple Essentials presentation, vast 4e sharing of powers.

CCotD: I used to have those book sets. *sigh* I think I threw them out.

I am pretty sure that the combat system you are thinking of was titled War Machine, and was in the Companion and the Cyclopedia. I never used them, but have heard very good things about them. There was a D20 treatment of the rules... Let me Google a mo....
Dig, dig, dig....
a Retro Clone, there is a no frills free version there, check it out, and if you really like it then there is a prettier print version.

The Auld Grump

Thank you for the Link to Labrynth Lord. I'm well versed in their items. Must have missed the part about Mass Combat.

Isn't Castles and Crusaders based on the retro version as well? From what little exposure I have, the modifiers seem to be bulit the same way, but not owning any C&C items, I do not speak with any form of true knowledge.

Here's the I was talking about.

Not sure about your Warmachine Reference. If you mean that it is part of the , I think I own it, but never read it (it is a culmination of all the boxed sets and Hollow World (which I also own) so it was purchased for possible errata but sits in a box with all the other Retro items).

I found this and it lays out the different "versions" of the Retro D&D.

But I guess this all takes this off topic. Sorry for my stroll down memory lane.... Sometimes simpler is better.

But my thanks again to Mr. Grump for the Mass Combat rules links for Pathfinder. I was going to try (and have been trying) to convert over the Battle System from AD&D days to 3.5.


edit: Appears that the Rules Cyclopedia is just a reprint (with corrections) of the Classic rules (BECMI, Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortal). and this about the Rules Cyclopedia is same as in the Companion Rules. (Verifying that what Mr. Grump was talking about is the same as I was speaking of). And this guy points out you can use it with any system and I remember doing so as well.

Down to two Pathfinder Core and two Heroes of Shadow over to the local Borders, as of Thursday. Restocks of both are scheduled.

This makes me happy. Both games have sold better this month than either at Christmas. - Pathfinder Core has now outsold any one 4e book, including the PHB, but it took it a while. (Literally years.) SoH has sold better than any 4e book since PHB 2. So both are looking healthy.

I am now looking forward to Ultimate Magic, I suspect that it will outsell SoH, but will take a while to do so - maybe a year or more. (The only Pathfinder book to sell super well right off the bat was Bestiary 2, even though it is really only useful for GMs. That... confuses me a bit, it has outsold Advanced Player's Guide - which is useful for everybody.)

The Auld Grump

Maybe the people who was "disgusted" by all the 4ed keep to his 3.5 and till now they have begun to end what they have in stock...and realice that pathfinder is here to stay... What I'm realy glad - and I didn't liked 3 nor the actual 4 - is that I love to see life in the rpg industry...like it or not myself

I posted on it once some time ago. I guess I could try that again. There are two other online places that I have used recently (Pen and Paper Games and the WotC forums) and I even posted an ad at a FLGS.

Just downloaded the PDF version of Ultimate Magic... Big book, 250+ pages. A little something for every spellcasting base class in PFRPG. My reaction to some of the new rules is 'Ewww!' Not in a bad way, but a Tumor as your familiar? Ewww!

Only one new class - the Magus, a melee spellcaster. There was a free playtest of the class a whiles back, not much has changed since the second playtest. Good and solid, in some ways a bit like a combat bard, but without the singing.

One new magic system - Words of Power, also open playtested, though I never had a chance to see it in play.

Spell duels... take that Mad Madam Mim!

Spellblights - afflictions particular to spellcasters.

Rules for Binding outsiders... I seem to recall something similar in AD&D 1e, way back when. (Not a safe hobby.)

Constructs, familiars, spellbooks.... Feats, and magic items, spells, and more importantly guidelines for creating spells.

Lots of Archetypes, including some for the Magus. (One annoyance with APG - it didn't have Archetypes for the new classes - not a problem in UM.) I continue to very much like the idea of Archetypes. And again, some change the class a great deal. (A swarm summoner, mixed bloodline sorcerers, etc..)

New stuff for alchemists, some with the above mentioned 'Ewww' factor. Daddy, can I have a flying tumor as my familiar? The class continues to be, ummm, fleshed out.

Bards gain Masterpieces.... and the player can either take them as feats or sacrifice a spell slot to get them. Lengthy bardic performances, with additional effects. I am not sure if they will see that much use, but they are interesting.

Clerics get alternate methods of using channeling... again, not sure if it will be used much - the standard channeling is so freakin' useful.

Domains for Druids... adding more versatility to an already flexible class. Druids can now have familiars!

Lots of variations for the Inquisitor... They are still Not Nice People.

Monks get... stuff. Paizo is pretty open that Ki Powers are, in fact, a form of magic.

Oracles get new mysteries, and can now have multiple curse weaknesses.

Paladins get Oaths, limitations in return for different powers.

Rangers can give up their limited spellcasting to instead create magical traps... Holy MORPG Batman! (Not thrilled with that one, mostly because my brain is associating it with online games.

More sorcerer Bloodlines (of course). They seem balanced, and continue to add flavor to what was the blandest class in 3.X. (Sorcerers remain the Best Change in Pathfinder over 3.X.) One oddball bloodline moves the sorcerer closer to bard, not that they didn't have similarities to begin with.

Some outlines for Eidolons. Nothing spectacular, just a guide on how to get what you want for the critter. I am going to bounce it off of Jen to see if she wants to modify her summoner. In particular, changing the Eidolon from Daemonette to Fae might fit the mischievous flavor she wants better I can use some fairy wings to replace the bat wings but otherwise use the exact same minis. And there is now the possibility of giving your eidolon spell like abilities! (I am kind of hoping that she replaces the pincers with this.)

The witch gets more hexes, and some interesting variants - the illo. for Sea Witch looks like he is hunting a great white whale....

And wizards gain yet more versatility - Arcane Discoveries allow the wizard toreplace some feats with class abilities. Better at building magic items, pulling a Dr. Doolittle, researching spells faster, specialists can get better at casting from their opposition schools, and some wizards can split high level spell slots into two lower level spell slots.

Over all, I am very pleased with the book - not game changing in the same way as APG, but continues with those changes, rather than pretending that the book never happened. A problem that WotC had in regards to late 3.5 - some books never saw support beyond release. [Hunter Thompson]We can't stop here, this is Splat country....[/Hunter Thompson]

*****

The number of copies for HoS and PFRPG Core at the local Borders is now tied at eight - assuming a six book restock that means that neither sold through before restock. If it was an eight book restock then both sold, mixed... who knows? Both are selling, all is well.

Borders is currently rearranging the genre section. Young Adult is getting moved back to near Children, and comic books, RPGs, and Science Fiction are all going to be nearer each other. Seeing the 'Pardon Our Dust' signs made me nervous - similar signs were up at Waldenbooks for months before they closed. This time things are actually getting moved, and my gods, the bargain and remaindered book section is going to be 'uge!.

The Auld Grump

As of tonight, there are three copies of Pathfinder Core left, six of Heroes of Shadows. Mind you, there was a 50% coupon this weekend past, so folks may have felt that it was a good time to invest in a $50 rulebook....

Duncan did get to ask some folks about DDi. A surprising number used to have subscriptions, but let them lapse after the character and monster generators were 'improved'. Only one admitted to still having DDi, and he was not happy with what he was getting at that point. (Of course, it could be that folks with DDi aren't buying the books....)

None of them had ever heard of either Hero Lab or PCGen.

Some were buying Pathfinder, planning to give it a try. (I almost got volunteered, again.) Most of those that he asked were buying HoS at the time.

Unrelated, he sent me to look for Feedbooks.com - an e-book retailer that does not limit books to just a single brand of e-reader.

The Auld Grump

And, speaking of 50% Coupons - Borders has another for tomorrow, if you

As I said above, 50% off of a $50 book makes it a lot more attractive. (I already have two of each of the main books - I keep one as a loaner.) The coupon is good in store or online at Borders.com .

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* I suppose you could use it for 4e instead, but where's the fun in that?