I think you should look at the Savage Worlds system, especially for Zombie combat. It is both an RPG game and minis game, is simple but rich, is easier to use than the D&D minis combat system, and would be much easier to integrate a full zombie campaign into SW.

You can check out their Showdown rules (basic skirmish game), and the Test Drive rules of their system for free from their website, here: http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Wo ... 0Downloads


Note: unlike the D&D minis rules, the SW Skirmish rules are exactly the same as the normal SW rules, only slightly simplified. The D&D Minis rules are based on, and similar to, normal D&D rules, but they are different, and sometimes those differences can be confusing. Also, if you do play on going forward with D&D mins (which isn't a bad system, I have literally thousands of D&D minis and play the skirmish game often), you should download the newest version of the rulebook from the Wizard's site. The Minis handbook rules are quite outdated.

I also say Savage Worlds, just get the rulebook and you really need nothing else - but has others have pointed out some of the Supp. are very well done. Anything that has the Savage World backing is a well crafted investment in gaming, this is done simply because the company that own SW don't have the resources to feed the public just passable products. WOTC don't have this problem.

Also check out from a ton of free rules and toolkits to add on to SW and they are all formated in sexy 'zines.



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

As I said, it mainly came down to the fact that SW handwaved one of the things that had caused me to buy it in the first place. Had they not claimed to have a way to handle weird science I would not be nearly as irate. But they did, and I am. (In truth the weird science handwave is pretty darned bad. Just treat then as magic items... bye bye Savage Worlds...) The company had done a decent system for weird science before, but this time they dropped the ball.

You may want to take a look at True 20 Bayushi Shogo - a much more elegant take on the D20 system in many ways,utilizing only a single D20 for task resolution.

This thread hijacking has been brought to you by:
The Auld Grump

I mentioned a few in one of my previous posts - Book of Stronholds & Dynasties has a system that is not for miniatures, but works well with them, strange as that may sound. It has become my default D20 mass combat system. I last used it with Castle Works Classic for a siege game, with about 200 cardstock standees per side. (About the only time that I have printed up standees, but for this they were useful.)

The players who wanted the job of getting the magic sword to be easy played the defending troupes, the ones who wanted a challenge were the attackers. High points included the giant carrying barrels of Alchemist Fire being fireballed...

As it happened the siege was not over by the time the PCs showed up trying to get the sword, so they had to sneak past the remaining attackers. Once inside the castle all that they needed to do was give the owner of the castle a letter telling him that these were the people who were supposed to get the sword.

I also modified the system for use with OGL Steampunk, which was not hard at all. (So that would actually be the most recent use - but mostly for cludgy clanking steamtanks... and Russian artillery... the tanks fared better than infantry, but not well enough.)

The Auld Grump

Wow.

Are we still talking about games and gaming? I'd swear it was turning into a defensive battle. (Of which, no one wins BTW )

So, lets just take it to the table top boys. Each of you pick your guys and your RPG (Miniatures Rules)system of choice, I'll set up the WWG terrain, and we will see whom wins.

The reason I would and do choose SW is probably for alot different reasons than most of you do (or don't) choose to use it.

I really like Savage Worlds for what it is and what it's for (to Quote Shane Hensley):

"Our Style of gaming is for those gamers who don't have(or don't want to commit to)tons of time to prepare. We wanted a game that allowed you to create NPCs in minutes, required super-minimal bookeeping, and didn't tax the mind and energy of 30 somethings who had kids, wives, jobs and so on to deal with."

And I'd like to add: Who also do ALOT of other things besides RPG/Wargames. Like BoardGaming, or do alot of Physical activities(sports, excersise training, etc). and don't have the time to devote to it anymore.

Oh I have fond memories of doing nothing but playing DnD and having the time to plan and create, etc. I remember not too many years ago actually having time to collect and play GamesWorkshops table top skirmish games. But I just don't have the time to do either properly anymore. I do so many other things that simply devoting a majority of my time to RPG'ing and Wargaming(and what is, probably a given to alot of you, knowing Rule sets inside and out to the point where you don't need to look up alot of things anymore)would not allow me to do all the other things I love. But, don't get me wrong, GAMING is my first love.
And SavageWorlds lets me do those 2 things(RPG/Miniatures) without alot of preptime and book keeping(so I can focus on the playing, the fun & the most important part -the social interaction). And the system is so streamlined, efficient and simple I can bolt on any additional systems(mechanics) I feel would add to the fun without all the extra statistics to keep track of. (Like the sanity/horror systems for a zombies campaign).

As an aside, I really like Deadlands, having read a bit of it. And the Great Rail Wars(which, is what SW is based on unless I am wrong about that). And it is really cool. I love the settings, all the WEIRD and the interesting play mechanics.

I still play D20 when my group feels the urge, but I will only Play. Not DM. (This includes DnD - Eberron, StarWars) Iron Kingdoms source material is extremely cool. I might pick it up just for that.

And I have decided not to use AFMBE system. Instead using SW and using it as source material.

Mordheim and small skirmish type games is about all I'll commmit myself too these days.

-Floyd

Amen to that brother ! Count me on that 100% (is not a thing of best - worst ... is a thing of like/suit better to my time/taste)

For me you won...

Grump I agree with you totally on this:

I don't like the idea of simply changing the name Spell and call it tech either. It is probably the one thing I never really did like when a system intends to be "generic". Sometimes it ends up too generic. But I feel the good parts have outweighed the weak for me. AndI I can always hope that either a new Genre supplement from Pinnacle or a new system from 12 to Midnight will appear to cover Tech/and-or/The Weird in more interesting ways. (SW is really good that way, so you could easily make it more complicated). And see if it would add to my game. (Much the way 12 to Midnights Horror Check system & Zombie Run(Scrounge rules) has added to the Modern Zombies stuff.

Otherwise, I'll look at something else if/when I decide a need to go that route.

Anyway, back to the Table Top combat RPG stuff. There is a basis of some really intersting Vehicle Dogfight/Race/Chase rules. and man would I love to see some this cover a MadMax setting(ie. Edge of civilaization, not the Road Warrior desert stuff as much). Seems this would be an excellent Genre to Savage up. (I know they did some preliminary Savaging of Horizon:Redline in Issue#2 of Sharkbytes. But I've never really looked into it).

-Floyd

ps. Really, really looking forward to Savage Deadlands